Cade Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Moja iskustva su ista i 10.8.3 (kod drugara je i 10.8.2 OK) je zvuÄno bolji od Yosemite i Maverick OSX-a. DoduÅ¡e nisu probane sve varijante Maverick-a i Yosemite-a pojedinaÄno, ali je uporeÄ‘en npr. 10.8.5 i odustao sam od ove verzije i vratio se na 10.8.3. Probano isto sa hiFace TWO, a zaÅ¡to to bolje svira meni nije jasno Zanimalo bi me da probam 10.6.8 i stoji predlog da ako poznajete nekog ko to može da uradi slobodno se javite (dobro plaćam ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Meni nije jasno kako. Ako nisu menjali drajvere i podešavanja u istim, ne može u bit-perfect modu da bude razlike. I OSX, Linux i Windows imaju bit-perfect, s toga ne zavisi od njih zvuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ubi me ako znam u Äemu je fora, ali da svira drugaÄije svira Razlike su jasno i lako uoÄljive. Ovo je utvrÄ‘eno na dva odvojena sistema (dva mac mini-ja iste generacije sa razliÄitim OSX-om, sve ostalo isto) sa viÅ¡e para uÅ¡iju Ne pitaj me koliko vremena sam izgubio dok se nisam zaustavio na 10.8.3! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srdjan_cvetkovic Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Kako beše ona reklama..."izgleda šašavo, ali mene više leđa ne bole" Jedino ako misliš da mora da je u pitanju kolektivna halucinacija, jer sve su to na kraju jedinice i nule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toza Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ne može to Darkmagician da ti objasni. To su za njega nerješive enigme. Biće toga još (nebuloza za digitalandraka) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Uopšte nisu nebuloze. Sam OS ne radi ništa ako se zaobilazi njegov mikser. Ne može da mu da drugi zvuk, ako mu ništa ne radi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Kao sto sam napomenuo, moje licno misljenje je da se radi o softwerskom resenju M2Tech Hi Face Two - dakle bolje reseno za 10.8.3 od kasnijih tj.novijih OS X. Zapravo neverujem da je razlicitost reprodukcije kod dve ili vise verzija OS X. Pitanje je vremena kada ce M2Tech urediti softwersko resenje za Yosemite, makar se nadam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnage Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 UopÅ¡te nisu nebuloze. Sam OS ne radi niÅ¡ta ako se zaobilazi njegov mikser. Ne može da mu da drugi zvuk, ako mu niÅ¡ta ne radi... NetaÄno. Bar za Win... Ako ljudi već kažu da ima razlike, kako ti ne pada napamet da ti u tim tvojim pretpostavkama neÅ¡to ne Å¡tima? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 NetaÄno. Bar za Win... Ako ljudi već kažu da ima razlike, kako ti ne pada napamet da ti u tim tvojim pretpostavkama neÅ¡to ne Å¡tima? Nisu pretpostavke. Ako ima razlike mora da postoji logiÄni razlog. Kao sto sam napomenuo, moje licno misljenje je da se radi o softwerskom resenju M2Tech Hi Face Two - dakle bolje reseno za 10.8.3 od kasnijih tj.novijih OS X. Zapravo neverujem da je razlicitost reprodukcije kod dve ili vise verzija OS X. Pitanje je vremena kada ce M2Tech urediti softwersko resenje za Yosemite, makar se nadam. Možda, ali bi trebalo da ima flat odziv na svim OS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnage Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Nisu pretpostavke. Ako ima razlike mora da postoji logiÄni razlog. Možda, ali bi trebalo da ima flat odziv na svim OS... U pravu si, nisu pretpostavke već lupetanja. Pa postoji. Hint: Tvoj ljubljeni WAS(API) ne sadrži sampler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 O Äemu ti priÄaÅ¡? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willi Studer Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Meni nije jasno kako. Ako nisu menjali drajvere i podeÅ¡avanja u istim, ne može u bit-perfect modu da bude razlike. I OSX, Linux i Windows imaju bit-perfect, s toga ne zavisi od njih zvuk. Bit-perfect je Äista reprodukcija bez digitalnog procesiranja, poput glasnoće ili DSP-a. Bit-perfect ne znaÄi savrÅ¡enu digitalnu reprodukciju. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Bit-perfect je Äista reprodukcija bez digitalnog procesiranja, poput glasnoće ili DSP-a. Bit-perfect ne znaÄi savrÅ¡enu digitalnu reprodukciju. ZnaÄi Å¡to se tiÄe OS-a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willi Studer Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ne znam kako se u Windows-ima zove ono Å¡to je u OS X-u Core Audio i koji kroz razliÄite operativne sisteme ima razliÄite verzije i to izgleda ima uticaja na zvuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj.nik Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 U Windozama to se zove :"Kernel Streaming". I ovo je velika prednost Win nad Unix-olikim OS (Unix, Xenix, Linux, OS-X itd. itd). I ja bih voleo da je malo drugacije ali... Sto se same teme tice, nisam hteo da komentarisem ranije ali kad vec pisem: Optika je pogresan put. Elektricni signal se pretvara u svetlosni da bi se na drugom kraju ponovo svetlost pretvorila u elektriku. Nepotrebno dupliranje procesa koje neminovno povecava gresku tj. jitter. Ima i jako skupih optickih resenja ali nazalost ne i najboljih. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Trebao si se ranije javiti, probah, videh, odustadoH. Mozes li jos koju o Kernel streaming-u, sta zameras Unix-olikim OS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj.nik Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Unix-oliki OS su u startu koncipirani kao 'visekorisnicki' (multi-user) te kao takvi korisniku serviraju kopije sistemskih datoteka, sto pruza izuzetnu sigurnost samog OS, korisnik uvek radi sa kopijama datoteka pa i onim najviseg nivoa - shelll-ovima. Kod Windoze je situJacija obrnuta, on od jednokorisnickog sada pokusava da postane multi-user ali cessce ostane, user Upravo u ovoj srecnoj okolnosti da je kernel jos uvek takav kakav jeste, da se preko 'srzi' OS-a tj. na najvisem ili najnizem, (kako ko posmatra) nivou moze pustiti (renderovati) audio strim, bez daljeg mesanja OS-a lezi jos uvek ne distignuta prednost Windoza. Nazalost. U najnovijim iteracijama (W8, W8.1) M$oft malte ne cini sve protiv dobrog zvuka, cak je i 'Desktop' postao poseban proces koji je akoro nemoguce ukrotiti. I jos par drugih idiotluka. Treba biti svestan cinjenice da audio uopste nije na listi prioriteta kod M$, Jedini napredak jeste vidljiv u prosirenoj podrsci za visokorezolutni audio, sto do W7 nije bio slucaj. Jednostavno te primorava da ides u radnju po drajver za bilo sta sto se smatralo 'studijskim' nivoom. Nikada ne treba iz vida gubiti cinjebicu da je audio 'real time process' te ovde nema nikakvih bafera / kontrolera koji ce pomoci i ispraviti gresku u audio strimu. Sto manje aktivnih procesa ili interapta (zahteva) raznih hardverskih delova racunara (tastatura, mis, ekran, kontroleri, magistrale, bus-ovi itd itd) stoji aktivno, to ce audio signal brze i preciznije da napusti ovu elektronski jako aktivnu a time i zagadjenu sredinu. Pozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Nikada ne treba iz vida gubiti cinjebicu da je audio 'real time process' te ovde nema nikakvih bafera / kontrolera koji ce pomoci i ispraviti gresku u audio strimu. Samo jos jedno pitanje, istovremeno se zahvaljujem na prethodnom pitanju, moze li se postici da preko kernela takav kakav jeste pusti (renderovati) audio strim bez daljeg mesanja OS X-a ipak nekako podesavanjima npr.playera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj.nik Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 OS-X nema 'Kernel' kao Win, dakle ne. Ali svakako, dobar softver pod OS-X ce se pobrinuti da ugasi nepotrebno ili koriguje prioritete izvrsavanja pojedinih aktivnih procesa. Negde sam vec ranije napisao: Malo i zbijeno okruzenje lap-top racunara nije najbolje resenje za audio. Uz to, znam da npr MacMini nema dovoljno energije na USB portovima da pokrene ni malo zahtevnije pojacalo za slusalice, kao sto je npr. Light Harmonic GeekOut (450 mW do 1000 mW snage u A klaasi...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnage Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Evo još nešto: Operating System's Handling of Sample Rates Samo su propustili podatak da Vista/Win7 sve i uvek, bio jedan ili više tonova, podiže na 32bit float i primenjuje dither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 npr MacMini nema dovoljno energije na USB portovima da pokrene ni malo zahtevnije pojacalo za slusalice, kao sto je npr. Light Harmonic GeekOut (450 mW do 1000 mW snage u A klaasi...) To se resava power/data USB kablom & externim napajanjem 5V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
空也 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 dobar softver pod OS-X ce se pobrinuti da ugasi nepotrebno Beyond bit-perfect: The importance of the Player Software And MAC OS X Playback Integer Mode:http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_OSX-Integermode.html What Is Core Audio? https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/Introduction/Introduction.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 dj.nik koliko sam ja video, nije da ne zna, nego namerno navlaÄi ljude, jer to kako koristiti formulacije da ispadne kao da ima smisla je stvarno bezvezno. OS ne može proizvoljno da menja zvuk, niti njegovi servisi. Ako mu se zaobilazi mikser, i koristi direktna komunikacija sa hardverom, OS nema nikakve veze. Eventualno ako su drajveri drugaÄije podeÅ¡eni za razliÄite verzije OS-a, odnosno procesuiraju zvuk. Å to je ludost koja nema logiku. Kad bi svaka verzija i podverzija imala drugi zvuk, nikakva audio/video produkcija ne bi mogla da se radi. A radi se. Beyond bit-perfect je sviranje... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
空也 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Kad bi svaka verzija i podverzija imala drugi zvuk, nikakva audio/video produkcija ne bi mogla da se radi. A radi se. Produkcija mora da se radi pa mora, od necega 'leb treba da se zaradi, ...ali pitanje je kako? Evo, kukaju na razlicite verzija OSX-a i ljudi koji rade sa zvukom, a ne samo jadni audiofili! Why audio on the latest 10.8.4 sounds different over 10.6.8https://discussions.apple.com/message/22506414#22506414 https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/854185-10-8-4-sounds-different-10-6-8-a.html Hi I just upgraded my system OS 10.6.8 to the latest 10.8.4, and I found that audio on the 10.8.4 sounds different. I did some tests and I can say that audio when listening on the 10.8.4 has less bass content and the hi-mids are more agressive. I am running the audio studio on my Mac Pro and this was a big dissapointment for me. Also I rendered audio file from Logic Pro 9 on the both system and they are the same, but when you listening on the 10.6.8 it sounds correct while on 10.8.4 sounds different. I have the same audio drivers from RME Fireface 800 on both systems. In tests I used identical Logic arrangement file on both systems. I just don't like the sound on the new system at all. It is worse than it was on the 10.6.8. I switched to the Snow Leopard again and I regret that I puchased your latest OS. Why it is done? Apple? Logic Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.4) OSX LION 10.7 Sound Quality Vs. Snow Leopard 10.6 http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/4268554/OSX-LION-107-Sound-Quality-Vs-Snow-Leopard-106?page=1 I bought a new computer that came with OSX Lion installed and immediately heard something weird with the audio. It is hard to describe, I can only describe it as brighter and a little phony sounding. It can be confusing at first because sometimes brightness is perceived as "better" but it is more of a technical issue than just a simple sonic preference. I then did some tests switching Snow Leopard and Lion Printing the identical files as well as listening. Lion was definitely the issue. The issue happens with any audio software that I used with Lion and was not isolated to any particular software. The problem was most problematic when recording. I really gave Lion a try but it became even more apparent while mastering that its a problem. At this point I find it unusable for mastering and staying with Snow Leopard. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/666947-sonic-soundblade-se-le-2.html .... Somewhere I also read that Mac users are preferring the sound of the core audio apps in snow leopard over lion, but I haven't verified that myself. ... Lion sounds worse to me . It has nothing to do with Soundblade. It sounds worse in record/playback in the few softwares I've tried. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Magician Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Koliko vidim to je do Core Audio, Å¡to opet znaÄi da signal ne ide Äisto. Softverska greÅ¡ka. To sam i rekao da je jedina opcija. Mada i to na drugom mestu poriÄu... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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