ab Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Жалим случај Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Danas probah i ovaj "Best Of" iz 2003 - u potrazi za sto boljom verzijom numere "Still Of The Night". https://www.discogs.com/Whitesnake-Best-Of-Whitesnake/release/15368340 Ukratko - teski krsh. Malo su napanjili bas, ali je sav "muljav" i "razliven", sto vazi i za ceo snimak. Blagi uzas. Ono originalno izdanje iz '87. jeste "tanko", ali je za ovo "deset u glavu"... Ovo realno moze da prodje samo u autu. Probah i dva live-a - bolje da nisam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 I onda posle svega toga pustim tamo neki "levi" poljski bend - a ono zvukcina u svakom pogledu... (naravno da nije ni pod razno "levi" - ali u odnosu na jedan Whitesnake...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Sorry na offtopic-u, ali skoro pa pirova sva prica oko ultra-mega-giga sprava, DSP-a i "cistog" netaknutog bitperfect zvuka, kad su snimci "prave" muzike precesto krsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Probaj ovaj snimak Still of the night. https://www.filemail.com/t/HOFmRZrt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Thanks Probam sutra obavezno. Moram da ispostujem komsije i kucni red Pretpostavljam da je vinil rip u pitanju? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Da se vratimo na glavnu temu... Wilson Audio u ponudi uz (hi-end) subwoofer-e ima hi-end analognu skretnicu za subwoofer ActivXo (MSRP $4500) - stari model se zove WATCH Controller, ali uz full-range modele strogo naglasava da high-pass filter ne treba da se koristi. Pri cemu Wilson Audio kada kaze full-range - misli stvarno na full-range https://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/activ/activxo https://www.wilsonaudio.com/media/446/active-x-manual.pdf Bypassing the High Pass Filter In systems where the main speakers are full-range, the subwoofer used with the ActivXo can be configured more successfully without the use of the High Pass filter. Bass roll-off occurs naturally in your listening room. This effect acts like a 6 dB per octave low pass filter and rolls off the bass from your main speakers. In most systems, it is not necessary or desirable to use the High Pass filter. The ActivXo’s Low Pass filter controls, in conjunction with the Bass Equalization and Phase controls (discussed in Section 2), will allow you to successfully integrate the main loudspeakers with the subwoofer without the use of the High Pass filter by observing the following: 1. Make sure the ActivXo power is off during the connecting process. 2. Locate the input section of the ActivXo on the rear of the unit.The ActivXo features both balanced (XLR) and single -ended (RCA) inputs for the High pass section of crossover. https://www.wilsonaudio.com/media/349/manual-wilson-audio-subsonic.pdf https://www.wilsonaudio.com/media/309/manual-watch-controller.pdf Bypassing the High Pass Filter In systems where the main speakers are full-range, the subwoofer used with the controller can be configured more successfully without the use of the High Pass filter. There is a normal bass roll–off that occurs naturally in your listening room. This effect acts like a six dB per octave low pass filter and rolls off the bass from your main speakers. In most systems it is not necessary or desirable to use the High Pass filter. The WATCH Dog Controller ’s Low Pass filter controls, in conjunction with the Bass Equalization and Phase controls (discussed in Section 3), will allow you to successfully integrate the main loudspeakers with the subwoofer without the use of the High Pass filter. Poenta je upravo u onome o cemu pricam od starta - skretnica nije 100% transparentna i to je to. U zvanicnim manual-ima politicki ne kazu direktno sta je tacno razlog, ali to naravno razjasne sa kupcima svojih proizvoda. Komentar bivseg vlasnika MAXX Series 3 zvucnika (sadasnjeg vlasnika Chronosonic XVX) i Thor's Hammer subwoofer-a: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=46378&page=22 There is not an external electronic active crossover that has ever been made that cannot easily be heard. When I got my Thor I read about the tremendous effort Wilson put into their WC HP filter. So I employed it for about 6-8 months absolutely certain that not running the Maxx3 full range was the way to go. I did not follow Wilson's recommendation to run the Maxx3 full range. I thought the system sounded great. Then for some reason, I hooked everything up the way it was supposed to be. Everything sounded so much better, bass, extremely low base, mids, and treble. You don't know what your missing, until you hear it. Jos jedan komentar vlasnika WA - kao odgovor drugom forumasu koji zagovara upotrebu high-pass filtera: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=43678&page=4 I think you are correct but there are exceptions. Large Wilsons like the Alexx or XLF are the exception. Wilson strongly recommends that these speakers be run full range (no HP) so that the Watch Controller does not affect in any way the signal going to the Alexx or XLF. I have tried it both ways and can say conclusively that LP only(no HP) works best. The crossover coloration is noticeable with the HP engaged and Wilson specifically emphasizes the significant effort they put into the HP filters. That's why big Wilsons do not have exaggerated 30-50 Hz bass. It would make integration with a Thor or Subsonic impossible without a HP crossover. Both of these speakers possess both front and rear ports so that bass can be further reduced to allow the sub to perfectly integrate with the speaker. Using the front port decreases bass output in most rooms. However for me I find that the rear port works best and with the Alexx pulled out significantly from the rear wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 Wilsonovi generalno prave bruka zvucnike, inzenjerin im je da se smrznes.... Vodi racuna, njihovi subwooferi su pasivni, treba da nabavis i adekvatno pojacalo za njih E sad, to sto oni rade jeste, na neki nacin room correction. Prvo, neko je kacio video kako Wilson preporucuje pozicioniranje, ima tu dobre price. Drugo, Wilson zvucnicima, bar jacim modelima, je polozaj drajvera konfigurabilan, uz pomoc uputstva, a u zavisnosti od polozaja u odnosu na slusaoca. Jako zanimljivo razmisljanje.... Konacno, to sto oni rade sa subwooferima je brutalno resenje kazu da su im te skretnice da se smrznes. Sve u svemu, to je, eto, jedan jako zanimljiv nacin da se rese neki problemi. Odradis se time aligment mehanicki, doda se u bas podrucju dovoljno dinamike da popegla sve probleme .... nije to "room correction", vise je "room adjustement", ali ima prednost da nikako ne menja snimak. Da nije cene, resenje bi bilo odlicno. Ovako, par pristojnih Wilson-a (neces uzeti Sabrina-e ako placas par WatchDog-ova, verovatno ces gledati bar Sasha DAW), par najjevtinijih Subova (pomenuti WatchDog), skretnica, pojacala za sve to, plus stavec gore u lancu.... komotno si u sestocifrenom opsegu i prva cifra ti nije 1 . I ovo je jedina prava zamerka tom sistemu: jako je tesko raditi trickle down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 A jos koriste i Transparent interno ozicenje i preporucuju i za ostatak sistema isto to - Toza dobija instant aritmiju Elem, sve to stoji - poenta mog post-a je jos jedna potvrda da high-pass filter, pa ni onaj vrhunski analogni, nazalost, nema sta da trazi u sistemu tog ranga. Razvili su ga najbolje sto su mogli u zadatom cenovnom okviru koji nije ni malo mali za "glupu" dvopojasnu skretnicu, ali posto ni to jednostavno nije dovoljno dobro i transparentno - prilagodjavaju zvucnike integraciji sa sub-ovima. I stvarno, njihova preporuka za sve full-range zvucnike je dodavanje sub-ova. I jos jednom - kad WA kaze "full-range" - oni misle na Alexia, pa mozda cak i Alexx pa na gore, iako i manji modeli po specifikacijama dobacuju do 20 Hz i sviraju dublje od 99% tzv. full-range zvucnika na trzistu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sondek Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Ako neko i ima Wilsone uvek mogu Nixie i Toza to malo da dorade 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperFi Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 42 minuta ranije, sondek said: Ako neko i ima Wilsone uvek mogu Nixie i Toza to malo da dorade 😉 https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/90s/Audio-1996-02.pdf Strana 50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 19 sati ranije, vdzele said: Probaj ovaj snimak Still of the night. https://www.filemail.com/t/HOFmRZrt Probao. Deluje da je poreklo isti master kao i za moje izdanje. Bas je malo jaci bez dileme (ta razlika se bolje cuje kod tiseg slusanja), ali je sa gornje strane mozda blago smanjena "ostrina" / izrazenost detalja poput cinela koje nisu u prvom planu, vec su u pozadini (ovo se bolje cuje kod glasnijeg slusanja). Osim toga, vrlo slicno zvuce - nijanse su u pitanju. I glasnoca je vrlo slicna. Moram da dodam otezavajucu okolnost prilikom slusanja - mali se raspevao na sav glas BTW, danas nisam slusao nikakve "napucane" snimke pre slusanja ovoga, pa mi ovo i nije delovalo bas toliko lose - moze fino da "prasi" Ima i dosta gorih snimaka bez dileme - malo sam provrteo neke Iron Maiden albume... Posle toga pustih Lee Ritenour's – 6 String Theory i zvucalo mi je bolje nego ikad Potvrdih jos jednom teoriju (s)kuvane zabe. Kad se slusa muzika losije produkcije - bitno je pre toga ne slusati nista previse "napucano". Jel mozes da otkrijes poreklo tog 192/24 snimka? Ti si radio upsample nekim softverom/algoritmom ili...? Da dodam i jednu "anegdotu" od danas. Slucajno mi je u startu bilo ukljuceno lose podesenje UPnP server-a (nesto sam cackao juce), pa je ovaj 192/24 snimak bio resample-ovan u 176.4/24 i to je napravilo cujnu razliku. Vokal je pobegao nazad, stereo slika se suzila, smanjila se ostrina - ali i dinamika. Uopste mi se ne svidja sto je glupi resampling napravio takvu razliku. Ocigledno los algoritam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Vinil rip. Ripovao ga rus sa nadimkom bazar. Direktno u 24/192 bez intervencija u softveru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 S jedne strane - neverovatno slicno zvuci. Razlika je osetno manja nego izmedju razlicitih CD verzija sa kojim sam poredio. S druge strane - ako se ne varam, master je digitalni. Za to doba - nazalost. Nisam radio pravi volume match, ali i ReplayGain kaze da je glasnoca vrlo slicna - razlika oko 0.5 dB. Poslusacu ponovo i u tisini, bez stenice koja trckara okolo i dernja se U svakom slucaju - to je to. Nema "debljeg" snimka, a da valja. Nasao sam jos neki remaster - 20th anniversary edition albuma, ali ni to nije to. Nabijen je gain, slican zvuk, ali i malo losiji. Nije ni blizu los kao onaj na "Best Of", koji sam pomenuo. Jel imas CD verziju? Poredio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 22 minuta ranije, vdzele said: Vinil rip. Ripovao ga rus sa nadimkom bazar. Direktno u 24/192 bez intervencija u softveru. Nadjoh. Rutracker ruleZ Bogami, mozda se malo zabavim i vinil ripovima, bar za ona izdanja za koja zelim da nadjem bolji snimak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Ja ne slušam albume, već pojedinačne pesme. Svaka pesma kod mene je ostala tako što sam poredio sve što ima na internetu, sva izdanja. Po meni, ovo je nešto malo bolje od cd izdanja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garson Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Ja bas i ne ocekujem neki preteran kvalitet snimaka s obzirom na zanr. Mislim sigurno ima audiofila medju fanovima Iron Maiden-a, ali vrlo verovatno jednocifren broj procenata. Ove ostale tj vecinu nije briga da li snimak deblji ili tanji. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 95% snimaka nastalih ripovanjem vinila su loši. Odma odbaci recimo one koji imaju EMU kartice. Garson - Ja baš uzimam kao test pesme iz ovakvih žanrova. Njih je mnogo teže reprodukovati kako treba nego fine nalickane produkcije. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Najbolji riper je amer PBTHAL. Poslušaj ovo pa uporedi. https://www.filemail.com/d/bijwckzgfgouein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 14 minuta ranije, garson said: Ja bas i ne ocekujem neki preteran kvalitet snimaka s obzirom na zanr. Mislim sigurno ima audiofila medju fanovima Iron Maiden-a, ali vrlo verovatno jednocifren broj procenata. Ove ostale tj vecinu nije briga da li snimak deblji ili tanji. Na ovom forumu nas ima bar 3-4 koji vrlo aktivno slusamo Iron Maiden.... Takodje, bend je na koncertima imao uvek solidno, a cesto i vrlo dobro ozvucenje - tako da nije da je nemoguce doci do dobrih snimaka. (Najgore je bilo na sajmu, mada je ona hala generalno krs za zvuk). Whitesnake nisam slusao uzivo, mada ih isto treba cuti kako valja, generalno ti bendovi imaju dobru dinamiku, gre'ota kad se ubije u produkciji. Jos veca tuga je da imas gomilu snimaka gde nije dinamika ubijena u produkciji, nego je jednostavno celo izvodjenje konvergentno sto bi rekli matematicari. Gomila sati odlicnih inzenjera bacena na npr. albume Diane Kral, a muzika takva da jedino posluzi da nekog ubedis da je eutanazija pravo resenje za njega.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 49 minuta ranije, vdzele said: 95% snimaka nastalih ripovanjem vinila su loši. Odma odbaci recimo one koji imaju EMU kartice. Garson - Ja baš uzimam kao test pesme iz ovakvih žanrova. Njih je mnogo teže reprodukovati kako treba nego fine nalickane produkcije. 34 minuta ranije, vdzele said: Najbolji riper je amer PBTHAL. Poslušaj ovo pa uporedi. https://www.filemail.com/d/bijwckzgfgouein Hvala jos jednom i za upload-ovani fajl i za info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexx Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 28 minuta ranije, Delija said: S jedne strane - neverovatno slicno zvuci. Razlika je osetno manja nego izmedju razlicitih CD verzija sa kojim sam poredio. S druge strane - ako se ne varam, master je digitalni. Za to doba - nazalost. Nisam radio pravi volume match, ali i ReplayGain kaze da je glasnoca vrlo slicna - razlika oko 0.5 dB. Poslusacu ponovo i u tisini, bez stenice koja trckara okolo i dernja se U svakom slucaju - to je to. Nema "debljeg" snimka, a da valja. Nasao sam jos neki remaster - 20th anniversary edition albuma, ali ni to nije to. Nabijen je gain, slican zvuk, ali i malo losiji. Nije ni blizu los kao onaj na "Best Of", koji sam pomenuo. Jel imas CD verziju? Poredio? Whitesnake fanovi se kunu u EMI holandsko izdanje iz '87. kao najbolje zvučeće. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 9 minuta ranije, Zexx said: Whitesnake fanovi se kunu u EMI holandsko izdanje iz '87. kao najbolje zvučeće. Jos jednom - rutracker ruleZ Probacu. Thanks Moja verzija bi trebalo da je Geffen Records 9 24099-2. https://www.discogs.com/Whitesnake-Whitesnake/release/10308830 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexx Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Nisu ista izdanja ni po broju i rasporedu numera, ni po dinamičkom rasponu, holandsko je nešto glasnije, ali je dinamički raspon ipak nešto veći. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Da. Ovo je jedno od retkih sa ovim rasporedom i brojem track-ova - takvo je i japansko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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