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Saving the world from Ordinary


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Zato se i zove Audio Science, slusni testovi su subjektivni (nista lose, ali jesu). A svakako nije cilj da se na osnovu merenja sugerise da li ce se nekom svideti neki uredjaj na slusnom testu. A

Da li morate i u ovoj temi da pisete kojesta? Pustite da pokretac predstavi u preglednoj formi to sto je zamislio pa da postavimo neko suvislo pitanje. Uz duzno postovanje, zadrzite svoje misljenje za

Jasta, treba mu dzeparac za uzinu.

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1 sat ranije, swenthehornmaker said:

 Hi guys, I was invited by Dacho. The reason was to show some of our developments and to take part in the  discussion. Sadly I can do it just in English because I'm from Germany and I just speak German, English and some Italian. 

Attached are some pics of our last setup and developments. 

A few more will follow during the weekend. 

Exept Arm and Cartridge all parts are made from us. 

All horns, drivers, turntable, Phonostage, wiring and amps 

Best Regards S

 

 

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Welcome my friend. Nice to see you here finaly.:)

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2 hours ago, swenthehornmaker said:

Hi guys, I was invited by Dacho. The reason was to show some of our developments and to take part in the  discussion. Sadly I can do it just in English because I'm from Germany and I just speak German, English and some Italian. 

Attached are some pics of our last setup and developments. 

A few more will follow during the weekend. 

Exept Arm and Cartridge all parts are made from us. 

All horns, drivers, turntable, Phonostage, wiring and amps 

Best Regards S

Welcome to the forum. Your horn installation on pictures is incredible big as old WE setups.  As we are discussing here about unordinary audio you are at the right place.  

Can you describe the target of your system design, structure of horn channels (used drivers, profile and material of horn mouth, throat and back chamber,  crossovers, physical alignment) and your impression about final result?

Regards,

Vladimir  

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3 sati ranije, swenthehornmaker said:

Many thanks. It's every time a pleasure to meet nice people and to talk about one of the most important things in my life. Hifi, Cars and Whiskey..... 

And girls ... :D :wub:

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7 sati ranije, swenthehornmaker said:

 Hi guys, I was invited by Dacho. The reason was to show some of our developments and to take part in the  discussion. Sadly I can do it just in English because I'm from Germany and I just speak German, English and some Italian. 

Attached are some pics of our last setup and developments. 

A few more will follow during the weekend. 

Exept Arm and Cartridge all parts are made from us. 

All horns, drivers, turntable, Phonostage, wiring and amps 

Best Regards S

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome Swen! Your work is amazing! Can't wait to read your story...Tell us about horns, drivers, amps, everything :D

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10 sati ranije, somilenko said:

Kako sada nastavljamo, na engleskom jeziku ili na srpskom?

IMO, komunikaciju sa Swenom vezanu za njegove stvari, obavljati na engleskom a ostalo, kao i ranije.

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19 hours ago, hifista said:

Welcome to the forum. Your horn installation on pictures is incredible big as old WE setups.  As we are discussing here about unordinary audio you are at the right place.  

Can you describe the target of your system design, structure of horn channels (used drivers, profile and material of horn mouth, throat and back chamber,  crossovers, physical alignment) and your impression about final result?

Regards,

Vladimir  

Hello Vladimir and to the who gave me a warm welcome. Explaining our complete philosophy would definitely need a lot of time, but I will try to make it a bit shorter. 

 

About 30 years ago I fell in love with the Hi-Fi hobby, and of course not only Hi-Fi, also music.

 

As a young boy I couldn’t imagine a life without music.

Everything started with the construction of a horn loudspeaker, the "Schmackshorn. Later I started to build speakers for some friend of mine and every euro I earned I reinvested in the next project. After a few years, when I become 18 Years old, I started to copy the respective reference speakers Matrix 800 and Nautilus of Bowers & Wilkins and the Infinity IRS Beta. At this time maybe the best sounding speaker on the planet.

But over the time I felt that I needed some new input, something different, "The missing Link". And then, finally in 2005 it happened. I had the opportunity to listen to the first big exponential snail horn, the Sato. That was a completely new experience for me after all the years of searching for new input. Over the next two years I travelled around Asia and parts of Europe to listen to the biggest horn speakers, designed by Western Electric in the 1920’s and 30’s, the 15A, 13A 16A and the tiny 22A. Along the way I also listened to the other famous large horn designs, like the Klangfilm Bionor and Eurodyn and finally the Shearer horn.

 In 2007 it was time to start my first snail horn project. A newly developed Sato horn with an extension of 3/4" to match up with a compression driver developed by a friend of mine. 

First of all its easier if I describe my own system, because it's based on the laws in which we believe. Believing is probably the wrong word. In 30 years we found out some basically rules which we will never want to miss again. 

 

My own system: 

 

Three way full activ horn loaded system. 

 

Bass:

 

    Front loaded bass horn. Driven by 6x 15" in a 285 cm long air column ending up in a 10.5 sqm horn mouth. 

 

 Low-Mid:

 

      Hornsolutions WE66A with the famous and well known 666 compression driver. 

 

 Tweeter:

 

     Elysio HT16 with the modified hornsolutions Beryllium tweeter. 

 

 The whole system is realized in a concentric arrangement (that's one of our rules) of all three horns. By this we get the complete sound on one sound-axis. 

 

 A worlds first in this execution.

 

 X-over:

 

     "The Room" DSP with IIR and FIR filters, phase correct and time aligned. (Rule Nr 2) If you use long exponentiall horns, you need to deal with the delay or your sonically result will never reach 100% of what is possible. All our setups are 100% concentric arrangements, like the old point source drivers 604/605 from Altec. 

Another thing what was very important to us happened around 12 years ago. We took 100.000 measurements as overlays on one frequency response graph. Therefore we used 10 different NT kind of musics, not pink noise ;) 

Techno, Jazz, classic, hip hop, metal, Acapella and others. From each music we took 1000 measurements. The result was amazing. 85% of the complete music is happening between 160Hz and 680Hz. That's exactly the octave below and on top of the total midrange, the chamber tone of 434 Hz. So for us it was clear that this frequency range has to be covered from one horn, without any cutting. 

 

Another thing was that a compression driver can cover this with 40 times less THD2 and THD3, and he is faster, much  faster. But there was no compression driver available in the market except the 555W and the bad and expensive copys of the Western Electric 555.

 

During 4 years we developed our own driver with a 1.6 Gramm dia and 2.400 Gauss power in the gap. At 0.25 Watt it reaches already 97dB and at the same time, the diaphragm makes a movement of less than 0,2 mm. So you can imagine that this driver is really fast. By this we archive much more "Micro Informations", and these Micro informations are what people describe as "dynamic". 

 

 

Attached are some pictures of my own room. It shows the system which i use for listening and development. 

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20 hours ago, džonibigud said:

Ovo izgleda kao da je van ovoga sveta:) Hvala Vam. Željno očekujem više detalja.

 

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That's a three way full activ, exponentiall front loaded system. Also in this system we use a concentric arrangement of all three horns. The bass horns in the back (there are two of them) are called Octahorn. 480 kg each one, 4 15" and the air column is more than 300 cm long. The bass is clearer than anything I ever heard before. In use from 18,5Hz up to 80Hz. The big baby's ob the front are Replicas of the Western Electric 15A. 435 cm long. Cut-off 51Hz. We use them from 100Hz up to 1200Hz and the white one is the Elysio HT9 with Beryllium tweeter. Usable from 900Hz. We use them from 1250Hz. The whole system is driven by our dsp "The Room". All fir filters except the bass to the low end. It is 100% phase correct and time aligned. 

Best regards Swen 

 

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3 hours ago, swenthehornmaker said:

Techno, Jazz, classic, hip hop, metal, Acapella and others. From each music we took 1000 measurements. The result was amazing. 85% of the complete music is happening between 160Hz and 680Hz. That's exactly the octave below and on top of the total midrange, the chamber tone of 434 Hz. So for us it was clear that this frequency range has to be covered from one horn, without any cutting. 

 

Another thing was that a compression driver can cover this with 40 times less THD2 and THD3, and he is faster, much  faster. But there was no compression driver available in the market except the 555W and the bad and expensive copys of the Western Electric 555.

I am sharing your philosophy that speaker should be build from dedicated melody range (upper bass/low midrange). Unfortunately most commercial speakers are to much compromised in that region, giving priority to bass extension (same driver covering upper bass and low bass with the help of secondary resonance principle such as bass reflex, tqwt, tl ...) or overly detailed mid/high region (as combining direct radiator and typical compression horn). 

Using compression driver for upper bass is highly exotic as only few very expensive options are available (such WE, ALE, GOTO) requiring very long horns making physical time alignment impossible. Most of the people using direct radiators here, similar to Avantgarde Trio upper bass channel, using 100hz tractrix horn.

You have mentioned you are using DSP. Are you using it only for delay (time aligment) or for full crossover function. Many audiophiles, including myself are not aware about audiophile quality DSP crossovers, finding it usable only with subwoofers. Have you discovered some special DSP/DAC/MultiAmp configuration?

 

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