srdjan_cvetkovic Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 sat ranije, Delija said: Dosadan sam vec - ali Air nije "pravi" streaming. To je Devialet-ov nesrecni interni protokol koji radi iskljucivo uz pomoc Windows/Mac driver-a i gde se rendering radi na racunaru i vec "sazvakani" podaci salju na Devialet - a ne na Devialet-u ili "hardverskom" streamer-u. Izmedju ostalog - bitna razlika je u tome gde se radi buffering. Kod mene u streamingu ne učestvuje ni mek, ni win driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somilenko Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Roon ima integraciju za AIR protokol, kao i sve neophodne drajvere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 On 22.7.2021. at 13:02, R_R said: Kod mene u streamingu ne učestvuje ni mek, ni win driver. Isti djavo. Poenta je da je diskutabilno kada kazes da nesto "bolje radi od streaming-a". Verovatno je adekvatnije reci da to nesto bolje radi od softverskog plejera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srdjan_cvetkovic Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Na Devialet forumu se isto ljuta bitka bije koji protokol bolje zvuči, a koliko videh rezultante nema, tj. jednom delu korisnika AIR radi bolje, drugom RAAT. Ako naleti neki polovan NUC za sitne pare možda ga i uzmem, čisto da testiram u svom okruženju, ali trenutno ne razmišljam u tom pravcu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 sat ranije, zoranzu said: Kada nam postar bude donosio fajlove sa Tidala na kucni prag,uredno zapakovane i ciste od svega i svacega,audiofilski svic ide na otpad A kako svic utice na prenos fajlova, ako spajas NAS i streamer, ili Roon server i streamer? Pricamo o TCP-u, preko IP-a, preko Etherneta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Nemoj ta teska pitanja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoranzu Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 NETWORK WITH ANSUZ LAN SWITCH & CABLES The Ansuz PowerSwitches are LAN/Ethernet switches which epitomize a pioneering approach to both noise cancellation and signal distribution in High End streaming networks. The quality of musical streaming performance – either from a storage unit or from one of the streaming services is not only contingent upon the quality of your individual network streamer integrated in your audio system but also on the upstream network technology. Via the World Wide Web, the network streamer is exposed to all kinds of noisy electronics such as computers, routers, switches, etc. – where the noise floor does not matter in the same way as it does in audio streaming. And, since the Ethernet is a floating network, there is no ground connection to drain out the noise floor. So, the challenge is to get the audio data stream as clean and low noise as possible before it gets into the actual streamer. The new Ansuz PowerSwitches take an unprecedented approach to tackle the issue of noise suppression. They are all equipped with Ansuz’s innovative grounding circuitry that cancels out a large amount of all these noise disturbances. To lower this disturbing noise level to an absolute minimum, Ansuz has endowed their PowerSwitches with further innovative and remarkably effective noise suppressing technologies. Higher quantities and the latest, even more advanced versions of the Ansuz Tesla Coils define the range of network switches starting from the Ansuz X-TC entry level up to our D-TC Supreme flagship model. Since network switches are extremely sensitive to the quality of their power supply, all Ansuz PowerSwitches are equipped with their own internal power supply that boasts a particularly stable resonance mode. The noise cancelling technologies inside the Ansuz PowerSwitches work hand in glove with all the technological innovations used in all the other Ansuz products like the Mainz8 Power Distributor - a mains and ground distribution unit - or the PowerBoxes. Through the mains network and the powercords, the effects of these technologies are able to unfold both up- and down-stream, and form a mutually re-enforcing alliance when it comes to cleaning the audio data streaming from signal induced fluctuations and lowering the noise floor throughout the whole audio/video system. Ansuz PowerSwitches also feature a built-in PowerBox with 10 low power outputs - located below the eight LAN-ports - designed for Ansuz actively shielded Internet cables. These outputs can also be used to shield other active Ansuz digital cables. For Ansuz analog cables, we recommend using one of the Ansuz PowerBoxes separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoranzu Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 29 minuta ranije, Delija said: Nemoj ta teska pitanja Ene iznad,nadam se da ti engleski dobro ide,da ja nesto ne izgubim u prevodu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Copy/paste marketing materijala ni pod razno ne smatram validnim odgovorom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoranzu Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 8 minuta ranije, Delija said: Copy/paste marketing materijala ni pod razno ne smatram validnim odgovorom. Kada na kutiji aspirina napisu cemu sluzi,pomaze ili sprecava,da li je to marketing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garson Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Neko bi za ovo rekao Audiophool switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delija Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 minuta ranije, zoranzu said: Kada na kutiji aspirina napisu cemu sluzi,pomaze ili sprecava,da li je to marketing? Da li je realno da poredis aspirin sa switch-em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Ja sam krenuo da pisem, pa odustao... Ajde, kad imas vremena @CoyoteKG procitaj ovo pa reci sta ti mislis? A sto se aspirina tice - super je primer. Ja se apsoltutno slazem da mozes da napises sve sto je proslo klinicke probe i pokazalo se znacajno bolje nego placebo. Procitaj malo kako idu klinicke probe lekova.... Ima ovde doktora, pojasnice bolje od mene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garson Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 I ovo je proslo "klinicku" probu - neko probao i rekao bolji zvuk sa tim switchem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Naum Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Meni recimo nije bitno kako su dosli do nivoa tehn. napretka do kog su dosli. Nekima je bitno, al izgleda ne mogu jos da razumeju kako. Ne zelim nikoga da ubedjujem da menja misljenje ili sl. Promena koju unosi predmetni switch se najlakse opisuje kao "neverovatna", i zbog toga se sigurno moze nazvati audiofilskim switchem. A nekima ovde koji u startu ne veruju je jos vise neverovatna. Samo je na zalost jedino verovatno da i kad bi čuli to neverovatno, nikada ne bih klimnuli glavom i poceli da veruju.. Sve je ovde vrlo jednostavno. Nekome treba objasnjenje da bi bolje cuo, nekom ne.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 @_Naum Ziveo pre mnogo godina jedan car, koji je mnogo voleo lepe i nove haljine.... Tako ispada ova tvoja prica. Carevo odelo ne vide glupi i nesposobni... 1 sat ranije, zoranzu said: Via the World Wide Web, the network streamer is exposed to all kinds of noisy electronics such as computers, routers, switches, etc. – where the noise floor does not matter in the same way as it does in audio streaming. And, since the Ethernet is a floating network, there is no ground connection to drain out the noise floor. So, the challenge is to get the audio data stream as clean and low noise as possible before it gets into the actual streamer. Nije bitno da li ja "razumem" tehnologiju koju oni koriste, bitno je da ovo sto su napisali NIJE TACNO. Ethernet mreza, po TIA568B standardu, je uzemljena. Uzemljene se pravi na patch panelu, napajanje od switch-a je na istom tom uzemljenju, jer switch stoji u rack ormanu u kome je i patch panel. Tako se radi u svim vecim mrezama, tako je i kod mene kuci. Takodje, cela ova fraza "Via the World Wide Web, the network streamer is exposed to all kinds of noisy electronics such as computers, routers, switches", mislim sta ovo znaci? Kako "noisy electronics" na pola sveta od tebe ima uticaja na streamer? Nemam ja nista protiv da napravimo test, daleko od toga. Sjajno je ako se napredak cuje, to je ogromna stvar - ali, ako mislis da je u pitanju tehnoloski napredak, onda mora da postoji tehnologija, a ovo sto je napisano nije objasnjenje tehnologije, vec je bukvalno nesto netacno. Mi jako dobro znamo kako radi prenos podataka kroz paketne mreze. Ne postoji "noise floor" u tom prenosu i "audio streaming" ne funkcionise razlicito - ovo je glavna razlika. Kad koristis npr. S/PDIF ti imas namenski protokol za audio, koji ima neke svoje osobenosti. Kad prenosis podatke preko interneta nema odvojenog interneta - sve ide kroz isti internet i svi podaci su isti. Kad prenosis slike ne pojavi se "noise floor" koji napravi sliku zrnastom, kad telefoniras preko VoIP-a nema "suma" na liniji od "suma u paketima", ne radi to tako. Zato, kad neko kaze da je napravio "tehnoloski pomak" pricajuci stvari koje nisu tacne mi znamo da on nije napravio tehnoloski pomak. To te reci ne znace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Da se razumemo, ja nemam nista protiv da me neko ispravi, bas sam tagovao Davora nadajuci se da ce da mi kaze "vidis, OVDE si pogresio, ovo je fora". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecoki Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 @nkrgovicKoliko si probao tig switcheva u tom rangu da bih mogao da tvrdis da to nije tacno sto pise? Verovatno nijedan!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoyoteKG Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 2 hours ago, nkrgovic said: Da se razumemo, ja nemam nista protiv da me neko ispravi, bas sam tagovao Davora nadajuci se da ce da mi kaze "vidis, OVDE si pogresio, ovo je fora". Ma ja sam temu otpratio posle prve stranice jer mi je prica o audiofilskim switch-evima u rangu Darkove o audiofilskim biljkama. No mnogo toga ja bas ne razumem u ovom audiofilskom svetu pa onda samo ćutim, čitam i ne shvatam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Ja bi voleo da vidim merenja da su ovi butik svičeri bolji od ovih kežual. Par hiljada grafikončića bi mi baš odgovaralo u ovo subtropsko predvečerje. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Ma nije problem da dobijes bolji switch od tih casual, ja imam switch od (list price) preko 2000$ kod kuce - ali ja ga nisam uzeo jer "ima bolji zvuk", nego jer ima PoE+ i jer ima neke druge funkcionalnosti. Uticaj na zvuk je ono sto ne razumem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Naum Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Opet isto,.. mora li sve da se razume? Ovde smo jer zelimo "bolji zvuk"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 31 minuta ranije, CoyoteKG said: Ma ja sam temu otpratio posle prve stranice jer mi je prica o audiofilskim switch-evima u rangu Darkove o audiofilskim biljkama. No mnogo toga ja bas ne razumem u ovom audiofilskom svetu pa onda samo ćutim, čitam i ne shvatam. Jeste, ali ovo nije RFC 2549, okacen prvog aprila, ovde ljudi tvrde da "Via the World Wide Web, the network streamer is exposed to all kinds of noisy electronics such as computers, routers, switches". Znas kako izgleda taj lanac, od, lupam servera koji streamuje (ajde, recimo, IceCast) do klijenta, i od L7 do L1.... Paket je paket, bafer je bafer, arp je arp, IP je IP. Ne mozes da nateras internet da ne koristi IP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdzele Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Napraviću jednu malu digresiju i paralelu sa ovom temom, vezano je sa butik kablovima Reče mi ne tako davno jedna ptičica da se ljudi zamajavaju gledajući kablove kao prenosnike energije/signala u onome što se dešava unutar kabla. Problem je u očuvanja integriteta elektromagnetnog polja koji se kreće oko provodnika. Integritet se čuva na različite načine, nešto brzinom prostiranja polja, nešto izolacijom, stabilisanjem polja raznim zahvatima .... Mislim da je ista analogija ispoštovana i kod butik svičera. Kvalitet delova u prvom redu, u ovom gore što sam napisao. Žao mi je ako sad stajem na žulj fundamentalistima-topolozima koji misle da je sve u arhitekturi / implementaciji,....i ostalim stručnim izrazima. Uvek me mogu opovrgnuti sa par hiljada grafikončića da nema razlika izmedju kažuel i butika. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Prvo, switcher... Nije switcher - switch. Drugo, ovde se ne prenosi signal, vec podatak. Ethernet nije "broadband" vec "baseband", nema pojacavac vec ripiter. Signal se u svakoj tacki terminira i onda regenerise. Switchevi uglavnom rade store-and-forward, tako sto : Na portu A se se neki frame primi i smesti u buffer. Silikon (data plane) taj paket iscita iz bafera i onda snimi u drugi baffer, na izlaznom portu (u skladu sa logikom) Na portu B transiver procita paket iz bafera (gde ga je smestio switching silicone) i salje ga kroz kabl Na drugom kraju kabla mrezna karta prima signal i smesta ga u svoj bafer Iz tog, vec treceg bafera ga cita operativni sistem i dalje radi "nesto" sa njim. Nema ocuvanja polja, nema energine, nema ... nista nema. Signal se svaki put snimi i onda ponovo generise iz snimljenog. Ne postoji nacin da "ocuvas integritet elektromagnetnog polja", jer se podaci svaki put pakuju u bafere. Jednostavno, sta god pricali da se desava u analognom provodniku to nema veze sa ethernet mrezom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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