gvlada Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Pozdravljam uvodjenje novih podforuma, doneli su red u haosu. Tema za neki dsd dac, koji, zasto, koliko? Ne mora biti iskljucivo dac, meni pada na pamet Marantz SA8005 ili Oppo BDP105. Nadam se da cu uskoro procitati za neki novi model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Heh... verovatno ce se za 5 god i ovde raspravljati o dsd dacovima. Kada se setim pre 5 god dosta njih me napadalo za surround zvuk a sada i sami imaju surround sisteme. Ovo deluje zanimljivo, pretpostavljam da niko nije cuo... http://www.hllyfm.com/audio-products/diy-machine/dac-x10-es9018-xmos-usb-support-384k-dsd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Ove godine izlazi Young DSD. Za sada je aktuelan ovaj spisak: Playback Designs MPS-5 w/USB-X interface Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC Mytek Stereo 192-DSD DAC Lynx Studio dCS Debussy USB DAC with DSD streaming support Benchmark DAC2 HGC EMM Labs DAC2x Meitner Audio MA-1 and MA-2 DACs Simple Design Sonore exD DAC Chord Electronics Chordette QuteHD DAC and QBD76 HDSD exaSound Audio Design e20 DAC Fostex HP-A8C DAC MSB Technology DAC IV McAUDI DSD DAC (first production set debuted at RMAF 2012) Korg DS-DAC-10 (to be released in the near future) Resonessence Invicta DAC Teac UD-501 DSD/Double DSD DAC Luxman DA-06 DSD DAC Wadia Intuition 01 integrated with DSD-capable DAC S.o.T.M. sDP-1000 DSD-capable DAC/preamp Light Harmonic Davinci Dual DAC (DSD-capable) Auralic Vega DSD-capable DAC Oppo Digital will be updating their BDP-105 for DSD from USB devices, and their next universal player will support DSD via USB (DoP) RATOC Systems -- RAL-DSDHA1 and RAL-DSDHA2. Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSD versions Apropo surround, DSD znaš moje mišljenje. Evo i principa rada: "By default, DSD will be converted to PCM for playback. It is possible to bitstream DSD to certain DACs. This bypasses the DSD to PCM conversion. There are multiple DSD bitstreaming technologies. ASIO 2.2 This uses the native DSD bitstreaming support built into ASIO 2.2. The ASIO driver for your DAC must support it. DSD over PCM (DoP) DSD over PCM packs DSD into a PCM-like signal for bitstreaming. This works in a similar way to how AC3 is packed into a PCM-like signal for S/PDIF surround sound output." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Nasao i ovu listu: DSD DACs Auralic Vega digital audio processor ($3,500) [see review] Ayre Acoustics QB-9DSD ($3,250), DX-5DSD ($10,950) Benchmark DAC2 HGC ($1,995) BMC Pure DAC ($1,600) Cary Audio DMC-600 Digital Music Server ($4,995) Chord Electronics Ltd. QuteHD ($1,795) [see review], QBD76 HDSD ($8,500 w/DSD option) CH Precision C1 Reference Digital to Analog Controller ($32,975) dCS Debussy DAC ($11,000), Paganini DAC ($17,999), Vivaldi DAC ($34,999) EMM Labs DAC2X ($15,500), XDS1 V2 Integrated Player ($25,000) Esoteric D-03 ($13,999) exaSound Audio Design e18 Mk II ($1,999), e20 DAC ($2,499), e28 ($3,299) Fostex HP-A8C ($1,995) [see review] Korg DS-DAC-10 ($TBD) LampizatOr DSD DAC (2,990 Euro plus VAT in EU countries) Lector Audio Digitube DSD DAC ($TBD) Light Harmonic DaVinci Dual DAC ($31,000) Lumin LUMIN Audiophile Network Music Player ($7,200) Luxman DA-06 USB-DSD DAC ($5,990) Lynx Hilo Reference A/D D/A Converter System ($2,495) Marantz NA-11S1 Reference Network Audio Player and DAC ($3,499) Matrix Audio X-Sabre 32bit/384kHz DSD DXD Audio DAC ($1,099.95) Meitner Audio MA-1 ($7,000), MA-2 ($11,000) [see review] MSB Technology DAC IV (starting at $5,995), Analog DAC ($6,995) [see review] Mytek Digital Stereo192-DSD DAC ($1,695) [see review] North Star Designs Impulso DSD DAC ($1,250) Onkyo TX-NR5010 9.2-Ch THX Certified Network A/V Receiver ($2,999) Pioneer Electronics VSX-1123 7.2 Channel Multi-Zone Networked AV Receiver ($599), Elite VSX-70 7.2 Channel CI Focused Home Theater Receiver ($750), SC-67 9.2-Channel Network Ready AV Receiver ($2,000) Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC ($6,500) [see review], MPD-5 ($13,000) Ratoc Audio Lab RAL-DSDHA1 ($?), RAL-DSDHA2 ($2,000) Resonessence Labs Concero HD & HP ($850 CA) [see review], Invicta ($3,995 CA) [see review], Invicta Mirus ($4,995 CA) Schiit Audio Loki DSD Companion DAC ($149) Simple Design Sonore/exD DSD DAC ($1,195) [see review] Sony HAP-Z1ES HDD audio player ($1,999), Sony UDA-1 USB Hi-Res DAC ($799) S.O.t.M sDP-1000 DAC/Preamp ($2,900) Teac UD-501 ($849.99) [see review] TechDAS D-7/192DSD (346,500円), D-7i/192DSD (383,250円) totaldac All D1-DACs can be upgraded to provide DSD playback (350€ incl VAT in EU, 320euros excl VAT out of EU) [see review] Wadia Intuition 01 (projected $7,500 - $8,000) Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse (2,499), DAC-2 DSD ($1,599) Yulong Sabre DA8 Ultra-Low Distortion DSD 32bit/384KHz D/A Converter / Balanced Pre-Amplifier / Class A Headphone Amplifier ($1,299) Interesantni su native dsd, nikako konverzija u pcm. Oppo 105 me razocarao jer preko usb podrzava samo 2ch dsd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Bilo bi interesantno saznati kako nastaje nativ DSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Native DSD je jedno a ako mislis na probleme prilikom snimanja pa je dosta toga snimljeno kao PCM a tek kasnije masterovano u DSD za SACD. Ipak, SACD koje sam cuo zvucali su dosta prijatnije za uvo od audio cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zvukoljub Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Uskoro stiže i Denon DA-300USB, biće gotovo sigurno najpristupaÄniji DSD DAC na tržiÅ¡tu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Nasao, PCM1795 i 550$. http://www.qobuz.com/info/Hi-Fi/Bancs-d-essai/Denon-DA-300USB-Japanese174996 http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/denon-da-300usb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hajde sad malo ozbiljnije. TeÅ¡ko će se na tom nivou kvaliteta osetiti razlika izmeÄ‘u DSD i PCM. Kao kod ostalih medija kvalitet prvobitno zavisi od produkcije materijala, zatim A/D i na kraju D/A konverzije. Ovo poslednje je mesto gde mi imamo uticaj izborom odgovarajućeg konvertera. Jedina prednost DSD je u Äinjenici da je jasno razraÄ‘ena tehnologija izrade ISO ripova pa se isti mogu naći u zavidnom kvalitetu. Sa druge strane broj izdanja je koliko toliko ograniÄen. Mada vidim da su već poÄele egzibicije sa konvertovanjem iz formata u format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srdjan_cvetkovic Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 LiÄno nemam potrebu za DSD DAC-om, ali pozdravljam težnju za napretkom. Denon mi deluje obećavajuće, pogotovo ako su implementaciju uradili kako treba, Äip je po mom ukusu... BurrBrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Na diyaudio forumu ide slicna tema, clan zzz je napisao vrlo zanimljive komentare. Ne bih da linkujem, mozda autor nije raspolozen da mu se razmisljanja linkuju na druga mesta, uglavnom, moze tamo da se procita jer vredi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 "The SACD is a compromise that allowed commercialize the technology DSD digital recording, created by Sony to preserve records of Columbia.Now there is in the world best CD / SACD Denon DCD SA1 to take these things to clean. The DCD-SA1 offers for the first time, a switchable function, the possibility to directly compare the array with DSD Direct Stream conversion and conversion PCM.In many cases spotted friends and other audiophiles assumed linking the reader to SACD AV amplifier via optical or coaxial cable, forgetting that, in this configuration, can only play the "layer" of CD SACD hybrids. It is already possible to use links Firewire, iLink type, DLink, HDMI, etc.. but even these, and introduce unacceptable jitter in the signal levels (in the case of HDMI is paradigmatic see test Denon AV-X1) require, in most cases (not all) of the DSD signal is previously converted to PCM . Hence the relative disappointment that the SACD raised.For yes, in case, the best way to compare SACD / CD is connect it to a stereo amplifier or prior high definition, such as the Denon PMA-SA1 through quality interconnects (I used this cable EXPERIENCE Siltech balanced). But the hybrid discs there is no guarantee that the original array used to record the SACD and CD is the same. Or is the source but was recorded in PCM, by any advantages of DSD are lost.Some publishers, such as Telarc, compensate the difference and record both matrices to-20dB or-30dB to allow for some "headroom" to signal peaks. A good SACD classical music has a momentum of at least 60dB between pianissimi and tutti orchestral. A disc that sounds too high does not mean that the game is more dynamic. Listen to the ultragalardoado disk Santana "Supernatural", which is nothing natural "starts high and ends high", ideal for listening to the car radio. In fact, almost all modern rock records are written on top of 0dB to impress the staff. But the difference between the peaks and the lower signal is minimal: 20dB, both with peaks pills to avoid unpleasant clipping digital, which is far less benign than analog. So that most sound engineers of the music scene of Los Angeles chooses the analog to the original matrix. This is where the Denon DCD-SA1, a reader SACD / CD stereo pure, which allows us for the first time compare the same array converted by DSD Direct Stream Digital process and 24-bit/192kHz PCM w / "upsampling". Note that the process of "upsampling" Denon's AL24 artificially increases the resolution and dynamic, and change the character of the sound that sounds more "round" (less distortion in acute?) But also less informative and airy. Evil for evil prefer the CD to this travesty of DSD to PCM, although the difference is much smaller than my words can believe. Do not expect to hear night and day." - kraj citata.SluÅ¡ao sam ovaj kombo u nekoliko navrata pre 10-ak godina i radio poreÄ‘enja CD vs. SACD lejera. ZvuÄnici su bili Yamaha NS-1000M. Meni je bolje zvuÄao SACD lejer. Nisu svi SACD diskovi zvuÄali isto. Pored produkcije veliki uticaj ima i naÄin na koji je dobijen SACD. Kao Å¡to se da videti kerefeke sa upsamplingom nisu dobrodoÅ¡le. To je i moje iskustvo. Svaka obrada digitalnog fajla dovodi do deterioracije. DSD je dobar za digitalizovanje starih zapisa (zbog Äega ga je SONY i napravio) i koliko sam uspeo da ispratim struÄnjaci se slažu da je superiorniji od PCM za ovu namenu. Sa druge strane preovladava miÅ¡ljenje da je PCM bolji naÄin za snimanje (digitalno) novih materijala. Zbog svega navedenog potreba za SACD-om se svodi na minimum, osim ukoliko neko ozbiljno ne poÄne da digitalizuje stare/originalne master tejpove putem DSD-a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willi Studer Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Iako priliÄno pratim muziÄka izdanja i nove ureÄ‘aje, nisam primetio neku veću ponudu DSD formata u ponudi u poslednje vreme. Koji su izvori muzike u opciji, kada se razmatra nabavka DSD konvertera i zaÅ¡to ih proizvoÄ‘aÄi sada izbacuju? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Ima sajtova koji nude legalni download muzike u dsd formatu i to se moze izgooglati. http://dsd-guide.com/where-can-you-find-dsd-music-downloads Ovde se mogu skinuti free razliciti formati iste pesme pa i uporediti. http://oppodigital.com/hra/dsd-by-davidelias.aspx Zasto ih izbacuju sada? Marketinski, sacekali da izdivljaju sa 96/24 pa 192/24 prednostima kod dac, sada je red da bude dsd ready. Doduse do skoro Sony nije ni dozvoljavao komercijalnu upotrebu njihovog proizvoda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willi Studer Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 DSD je najanalogniji zvuk koji sam sluÅ¡ao, Äak mi je i SACD na Pioneeru DV-575A zvuÄao sjajno. Kada sam Äitao da su se Philips i Sony (ponovo) udružili i stvorili DSD jer su im isticali patenti za CD a istovremeno je bilo potrebno digitalizovati analogne mastere koji su ubrzano propadali, nadao sam se da ćemo doživeti reizdavanje mase muzike, albuma i kataloga na DSD-u u novom kvalitetu i da ću celu kolekciju kompakt diskova zameniti SACD-ovima. Stvarno sam se nadao da će to biti renensansa koja će udahnuti potpuno novi život kućnom sluÅ¡anju muzike i da će ta druga generacija muziÄkih izdanja biti i komercijalni uspeh. Nažalost, to se nije dogodilo do sada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Citao sam o periodu rata izmedju SACD i DVD-Audio formata, uz to se proizvodjaci losom kampanjom isticali da je red book audio cd u stvari ono vrhunsko, uz pojavu mp3 doneli audiofilskoj katastrofi. Mnogi audiofili tada su se vratili vinilu a masa ljudi presla na najzgodniji nacin strima i slusanja preko pc ili ipoda. Tu pocinje i mit da komp ne moze biti dobar za hifi, mp3 ili cd ili ploca. Pre 15ak god nisu ni postojale dobre zvucne koje bi izvlacile digitalni izlaz obicnom korisniku a audio veza putem usb nije bila ni u najavi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkrgovic Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Koliko ja kapiram DSD ili 24/96 imaju istu kolicinu informacija. Samim tim, ako uzmemo u obzir i Nikvistovu teoremu, zvucna informacija koju oba mogu da zabeleze je ISTA. Mastering ostaje kao stavka, naravno. Majstor je majstor. Ali meni se cini da je DSD samo marketinska smicalica, da Sony ostane relevantan.... Iskreno, ne vidim poentu igranja time - osim ako neko bas nema potrebu za nekim konkretnim izdanjima. Ja ne bi trosio zivce na to, pre bi kupino nesto sto dobro zvuci. That said, kupi ti dCS . Neces se pokajes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Koliko se secam "full otpakivanje" dsd u pcm zahteva 384/32. Nego, pogledah sta si linkovao da prodajes i ne radi ti link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonichammer Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Uskoro stiže i Denon DA-300USB, biće gotovo sigurno najpristupaÄniji DSD DAC na tržiÅ¡tu. ProJect je najavio softverski update za DAC Box DS, za vec postojece vlasnike. Novo proizvedeni primerci ce biti fabricki osposobljeni za reprodukciju DSD fajlova. Koliko ce da kosta taj Denon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anubisgrau Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 koliko kapiram, DSD ce se najvise gurati kroz pretplatnicke streaming servise. svakog meseca uplacujete neku kintu u zavisi od formata tj kvaliteta koji zelite, od 10e pa navise s tim sto premium opcije nisu jeftine. spotify i slicno, ima ih sve vise. cela ta hi rez prica ce se tamo preseliti, gde ne moze da se radi download i ilegalno sharovanje nego samo streaming. pametno smisljeno, sta je 25e mesecno za nekoga ko zivi u zemlji sa prosecnom platom od 2500e na primer. to sto se na kraju godine to nakupi na 300e tj 3000e za servis, drugo je pitanje. odlican biznis model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VU metar Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 ProJect je najavio softverski update za DAC Box DS, za vec postojece vlasnike. Novo proizvedeni primerci ce biti fabricki osposobljeni za reprodukciju DSD fajlova. Koliko ce da kosta taj Denon? 400 E prema nemaÄkom sajtu. Dac Box nema headphones out. Zanimalo bi me kakav je kao dac Head Box DS i da li se planira taj update i kod njega? Deluje kao fini ureÄ‘aj, joÅ¡ da ima daljinski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M C Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Ja uzeo ovaj KORG DAC . U radnji je 485e ali sam uzeo i neke extra slusalice pravljene bas za taj konvertor pa sam dobio i popust. Sve u svemu odlicno sam prosao i veoma sam zadovoljan kvalitetom proizvoda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron man Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Nasao i ovu listu: .... Interesantni su native dsd, nikako konverzija u pcm. Oppo 105 me razocarao jer preko usb podrzava samo 2ch dsd. A jel ovaj moj dac DSD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willi Studer Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Mislim da nije ali zato jeste DTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvlada Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Ðије дÑд... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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