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Kojim putem sada da krenem...


arnage

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Somi Knight, samo bez nervoze...:)

Na istom laptopu sa istom integruÅ¡om probana sedmica, nije mi se svidjelo kako zvuÄi sa WASAPI i vratio Xp sa ASIO i to je to. Fino zvuÄi i nemam problema.

Rekoh da sam možda nešto pogrešno podesio. Nije ni mnogo važno, to mi nije primarni izvor. Kad uzmem dobar dac, doći će i to na red.

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Treba napraviti razliku izmedju WASAPI Exclusive i Shared nacina rada, sto nije pominjano a uopste nije isto.

Takodje, WASAPI Event je posebno prilagodjen za USB dac-ove, tako da nema smisla generalizovati stvari jer niti imamo svi iste dacove (neki koriste fabricke drajvere, obicno na ASIO bazi, nekima ne trebaju fabricki...) niti koristimo svi iste izlaze sa kompa (usb, optika, coax, da li onboard, da li ugradjena zvucna karta...). Najlakse je napisati za WASAPI da je budalastina na osnovu dva sata slusanja i sa predubedjenjem u startu na bazi favorizovanja OS koji nam vise odgovara.

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Zaista nije bilo tako već upravo suprotno. Danima sam iscrpeo sve moguće kombinacije i svaka je zvuÄala loÅ¡e u poreÄ‘enju sa ranijom. InaÄe, viÅ¡e mi je odgovarao rad na Win7 i teÅ¡ka srca sam se vratio na XP ali je tako za sluÅ¡anje muzike bilo najbolje.

 

Danima sam vrteo kombinacije coax sa ploÄe, coax sa nove zvuÄne, stereo sa te zvuÄne, pa Äak 3.5 na rca sa integrisane jer nisam mogao da verujem Å¡ta Äujem...

Kablovi su Oehlbach coax i stereo Å¡to je doÅ¡ao uz Stanton cd plejer.

 

Od modova WASAPI i push i event, Äešće push, exclusive mod... 16bit - 24bit...

 

KS Juli@ audio, stereo i coax output.

 

Plus, poÅ¡to na MP3 plej listama je preko komponente ukljuÄen Resampler na 88.2, poÄinje straÅ¡no da pucketa sa svakim... 

 

Za KS kažu može da radi i ne mora, radio je na 16bit, a kada prebacim na 24bit pukne sistem, plavi ekran i restart.

 

InaÄe, uvek to držim na 16bit, ovo je bilo menjano Äisto edukacije radi, da Äujem Å¡ta će da bude.

 

ASIO nisam ovaj put instalirao, sa njim sam se igrao prošle godine na drugom kompu sa Win7, integrisana, Marantz i B&W.

 

Da je neÅ¡to loÅ¡e pokazuje da isti taj set, Foobar i KS na 16bit, na XP zvuÄi mnogo bolje nego na Win7. Isti program sa HDD, iste komponente. Ali hajde, kažu ne treba KS na Win7 ni da radi, ali i tu je zvuÄao najmanje loÅ¡e.

 

Sada Äak i internet radio mogu da sluÅ¡am bez da palim Enhancer na risiveru, nije mnogo loÅ¡e.

 

 

Ako neko ima konkretnu preporuku, taÄno Å¡ta i gde od "podeÅ¡avanja" bilo bi lepo da napiÅ¡e, ako nisam već probao da probam. Rado bih opet instalirao Win7...

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Rado bih pomogao, ali ne znam kako. U pitanju je AV risiver osnovnog nivoa, tu gomila efekata koji postoje za "poboljsanje zvuka" obicno samo unisti zvuk u stereo modu. Probaj da iskljucis sva audio procesiranja i efekte, a ukljuci Straight opciju, vidim da ima u uputstvu. Takodje, u uputstvu pise za digitalne ulaze da podrzavaju 96KhZ a ne 192 kao sto si napisao na prvoj strani, pa shodno tome podesi sound properties na Win.

Druga stvar je to da ti sa novom karticom preko analognog izlaza zvuci dobro. To znaci ili da je dac u toj Yamahi zaista los ili da nisi dobro podesio digitalni izlaz sa kompa. Sta moze biti razlog, stvarno ne znam i ne bih da nagadjam. Ja bih prvo proverio ovo oko iskljucivanja svih audio enhancera i ostalih softverskih ekvilajzera na risiveru (osim Straight, koji valjda sluzi da prenese signal sa ulaza bez ikakve obrade, tj. cist). Smanji i sample rate na 96 kao najvisi podrzani umesto 192.

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E dođavola, napisah kilometarski post i nesta struje. Uglavnom...

 

Hvala ti Å¡to pokuÅ¡avaÅ¡ da pomogneÅ¡. Ali problem o kojem je reÄ nije do risivera, on je konstanta, a problemi dolaze sa Win7, a nestaju sa XP. Ja odliÄno znam Å¡ta on može, a Å¡ta ne.

Jeste sample rate taj, pomešao sam sa DACom, zaboravio sam iskreno.

 

Ali to nije ni važno. Sample rate ne menjam osim preko one komponente samo na MP3 listama, a flac fajlovi su skoro svi 16/44.1. Sada ih i puštam u Straight modu. :)

 

TakoÄ‘e, nova zvuÄna ima sample rate do 192 i AUTO je ukljuÄen, pa tako za svaki fajl ide zaseban sample rate. Bilo gde da povežem, analogno ili digitalno, manje viÅ¡e isto je problem na Win7. Sa XP sve je ok.

 

Besmisleno bi bilo menjati ta podeÅ¡avanja u Win7 ako priÄamo da se Win obilazi i prepuÅ¡ta aplikaciji... Ali iz oÄaja sam i to ÄaÄkao, uklapao, Å¡ta sve nisam radio... I tu je bilo nekih sumnjivih promena ali viÅ¡e se ni ne sećam taÄno Å¡ta i pod kojim uslovima.

 

Nemoj mi zameriti što sam ovako šturo napisao, plašim se da će opet nestati struje.

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Verujem da bi bilo mnogo lakÅ¡e da napiÅ¡eÅ¡ kako si Å¡ta podesio, nego da piÅ¡em neke reÄi i izraze opisivajući Å¡ta je ovamo, a Å¡ta je onamo... Ispašće haos...

 

U postu nastradalom nestankom struje sam izmeÄ‘u ostalog detaljisanja bio napisao da sam povezivao i stereo pojaÄalo, ovo malecko Äudo pored risivera na slici.

 

Isti sluÄaj, naravno...

 

post-30474-0-72590200-1385137007.jpg

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Nije ni to iskljuÄeno, moguće da je WASAPI uÄitao rezoluciju miljea i rek'o ovo neće da može... :)

 

Sklanjao sam to svaki put kada se ide preko -40, a i sada ovu drugu prostirku samo što je tanja i pokriva 2/3 umesto sve. Čisto da ne upada sva moguća prašina.

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Pa da, tri klika miÅ¡em. Kod mene drajveri zvuÄne sami odreÄ‘uju sample rate fajl po fajl.

 

A Å¡to bi menjao sample rate u Win kada se on navodno obilazi, besmisleno je...

 

U nestankom struje nastradalom postu sam i to napisao, da se deÅ¡avala promena u zvuku menjanjem sample rate u Win, Å¡to ne bi smelo, ali sam u svom haosu od ÄaÄkanja zaboravio na kojim taÄno drajverima.

 

Zato je i pucketalo kada je bio ukljuÄen Resampler na 88.2...

 

Sve u svemu, teorija oko Win7 i ponaÅ¡anje u praksi se oÄigledno razlikuju iz nekog razloga. Ko bi dalje to da ispituje i proverava, super. Bez ljutnje ali ja se stvarno ne bih viÅ¡e bavio ovim, ne znam Å¡ta bih joÅ¡ mogao da dodam. Ko želi neka slobodno proba sam, priliÄno je jednostavno.

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Kome odgovara zvuk na Win7 i ne Äuje nikakav problem, nema potrebe da Äita ovaj post i gubi vreme. Bolje neka to vreme iskoristi da sluÅ¡a muziku.

 

Ovo je verovatno samo fragment problematike koji sam našao za jedno pre podne u pauzama, svako može da se dalje pozabavi time. Ja sam svakako završio sa ovim.

 

Wiki

 

Applications communicate with the audio driver through Sessions, and these Sessions are programmed through the Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI). In general, WASAPI operates in two modes. In exclusive mode (also called DMA mode), unmixed audio streams are rendered directly to the audio adapter and no other application's audio will play and signal processing has no effect. Exclusive mode is useful for applications that demand the least amount of intermediate processing of the audio data or those that want to output compressed audio data such as Dolby Digital, DTS or WMA Pro over S/PDIF. WASAPI exclusive mode is similar to kernel streaming in function, but no kernel mode programming is required. In shared mode, audio streams are rendered by the application and optionally applied per-stream audio effects known as Local Effects (LFX) (such as per-session volume control). Then the streams are mixed by the global audio engine, where a set of global audio effects (GFX) may be applied. Finally, they're rendered on the audio device.

The higher level APIs such as the Wavexxx APIs and DirectSound use shared mode, which results in pre-mixed PCM audio that is sent to the driver in a single format (in terms of sample rate, bit depth and channel count). This format is configurable by the end user through Control Panel.

After passing through WASAPI, all host-based audio processing, including custom audio processing, can take place (sample rate conversion, mixing, effects). Host-based processing modules are referred to as Audio Processing Objects, or APOs. All these components operate in user mode. The only portion of this architecture that runs in kernel mode is the audio driver (which contains the Port Class driver, the vendor Miniport driver and the vendor HAL).

The Windows Kernel Mixer (KMixer) is completely gone. There is no direct path from DirectSound to the audio drivers; DirectSound and MME are emulated as Session instances. Since the whole point of DirectSound acceleration is to allow hardware to process unmixed audio content, DirectSound cannot be accelerated in this audio model, and DirectSound3D is not supported at all, which also breaks EAX extensions.[4] APIs such as ASIO and OpenAL are not affected.

 

A fault in the MME WaveIn/WaveOut emulation was introduced in Windows Vista: if sample rate conversion is needed, audible noise is sometimes introduced, such as when playing audio in a web browser that uses these APIs. This is because the internal resampler, which is no longer configurable, defaults to linear interpolation, which was the lowest-quality conversion mode that could be set in previous versions of Windows. The resampler can be set to a high-quality mode via a hotfix for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 only

 

Audio file sounds distorted after you convert the sample rate in Windows 7 or in Windows Server 2008 R2

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2653312

 

 

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/knowledge-base/show/752/windows-7-tuning-tips-for-audio-processing/

Microsoft Hotfix for USB Spikes

There is a known issue regarding the functionality of external high-speed USB audio interfaces under Windows 7 or Windows Vista Systems. ...

 

There is high CPU usage when using a USB audio device connected to a USB 2.0 EHCI host controller

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/981214

 

 

http://www.lynxstudio.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3700&title=windows-7-multichannel-16bit-dither-bug

Windows 7, multi-channel, 16-bit, dither bug?

 

In short , Why Windows 7 WDM audio sub-system modify audio stream when using 16 bit ?
Perhaps, dither but if this is the case , is it a way to turn it off?

 

 

The answer from Microsoft was they admit there is a bug in Windows 7 and they are not going to fix it.
Yes, you will have to convert to WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE if you want to get around this bug.

 

 

http://mark-dot-net.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-up-with-wasapi.html

Now I have been creating a set of .NET wrappers for WASAPI as part of my NAudio open source audio library. After the pain of writing the mountains of COM interop required to get .NET talking to WASAPI, I hit a brick wall. WASAPI does not offer sample rate conversion. In other words, to use shared mode, you must either hope that the Vista machine's audio engine is set to the exact sample rate of your audio, or you must write your own sample rate converter. And sample rate conversion is by no means trivial. Especially if your criteria are that it must not degrade the audio quality and it must be as fast as possible...

... Build in sample rate conversion in shared mode (and exclusive mode for those using sample rates not supported by the device)

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